Universe

Greeting Brethren,
I have been to degrees where the whole Initiatory Degree is not performed. Instead, the candidates come in, repeat they're obligation, and that's it. Same with the DeMolay Degree, where the play will be done, but only the obligation will be done in the 4th Section, and nothing else. I am personally against this practice, because our ritual is one of the things that seperates us from other organizations. What do you think?

I personally am also against it. I don't feel that it is right. I understand some chapters dont have the resources to do the degrees in full sometimes, but sometime even chapters that do have the resources, do this short form. It would have made a bunch of things easier on our chapter, but we dont feel it's right either, as a chapter. So whenever we have someone joining, if it's one person, or 34, we do the full form. And sometimes, we werent able fill all the offices, so we just had the people that knew the part (mostly preceptor parts) do two parts.

Fraternally,

Brothers,
I was recently Initiated, and according to my father they performed all of the rituals. I found that the rituals were very rewarding within themselves: a very wonderful way to be introduced to the purposes and virtues of DeMolay. My chapter, a small one from The Colony, Texas, was the ritual team-- and having too few members seemed to hinder us little... our Steward doubled as Preceptor 3 and 7, and we had members of another chapter stand in for the Demolay degree. The only thing that bothered me was that in the DeMolay degree, the Master Inquisitor and Jacques DeMolay, as well as the Orator were portrayed by senior DeMolays... IMHO, those parts ESPECIALLY should only be given to active youth DeMolay. Any comments?
Jacob

Brother Jacob,

The role of DeMolay is a hard part to learn and act, and there are only (to my knowledge) 2 or 3 people in the state of Maryland that everyone calls to help with the DeMolay degree play. It should be done by an active DeMolay, and I am working on the part under proposal from my chapter Dad, because he too believes that the part should be done by an active DeMolay, but when there are only a few people that can do it (One of those people is a Senior DeMolay, and the other will turn 21 in May), the chapter has no choice but to ask them or have someone just read from the ritual, and I think that that would be taking something away from the new candidates by just reading it.
Well that was my two-cents.

SR&F

Brother Ben-- While I agree that the part is indeed difficult, and that few people know it, I also know that any of the young men in my own chapter would give their left leg for the opportunity to learn the part... What I think we should do is have those who DO know the parts tutor active DeMolays interested in the role until there is no longer need for Senior DeMolay help... Again, I have very very little against Senior DeMolays portraying any of the roles--I only take issue with the fact that no one seems to be doing anything about training younger members to perform those parts... Sometime down the road, if this is not addressed, there will be no one left who knows the parts. I also understand and accept that my vocalizing displeasure places the yoke of learning the role upon me--and I am actually excited to think that one day I could have that honor. I would just like to see more DeMolays learning those parts... I don't know ANY at the moment who know the parts, and it seems that no one is trying to change that. Any suggestions on getting this rolling would be wonderful; I would love to see my chapter and my whole region getting more member involvement in the rituals.
Thank you!
Jacob

Jacob,
I think you have a unusual situation up there. I am an advisor with Houston and the only time we use a Senior DeMolay for any parts is when the actives that know the parts can not be there. We are trying to have at least 2 people working on every part.
Dad Gooch

Dad Gooch--
I think you're right, and green as I am, I am looking to make some changes in that respect... I just feel that there are only two ways in DeMolay to learn the virtues that we have set out to learn--to SEE them presented in the rituals and to PRESENT them ourselves... Hopefully I can get our chapter to have more people that have learned the parts.
*crossing his fingers*
Jacob
The Colony Chapter

Jacob, et al.

I believe that you are right, but when you have the choice of only Obligating the Candidates, or of giving them full degrees with some Senior DeMolay help, I'm a believer in the latter.

If they haven't seen the Degree work, (and seeing it later never makes the same impression) how can they be expected to learn how to do it themselves?

BTW, we have, in years past, put on an "Old Timers DeMolay Degree" here in Florida, where "the old men" took all the parts.

And while it wasn't done (intentionally, any way) for Candidates, it is fun occasionally to prove that we are capable of doing the work, as well as sitting on the sidelines and criticising the way you guys are doing it.

And that applies equally to working as a Tournament Evaluator or as a Chapter Ritual Coach.

Fraternally,

D.

You know, when I was younger and more arrogant, I really bought into the "it's what sets us apart from the rest" line myself. That's fine to a point. As I spent more years in the order and became more jaded as I saw more of the behind-the-scenes politicking, I think I came up with a better reason for the ritual: It FORCES you to think about what those precepts mean.

Before I joined DeMolay, I was in the Boy Scouts; something I'm not proud of now, but it's a fact of the past, and there's no sense denying it. They have the scout law, which has, actually, a longer list of virtues than our seven: Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, and Reverent. But the scouts don't elaborate. They don't explore the meanings of those words. And they definitely don't live by them. They recite them every now and again. And otherwise, they just put on their uniforms and go camping.

OTOH, when you sit down and study the preceptor parts or the ceremony of light, either for competition or for performance in your own or another chapter; you're FORCED to dwell on each of those parts. You're given a fairly lengthy explanation of what each one means, and you drum that explanation into your head until you have it down backwards and forwards. You wind up giving thought, not just to a list of precepts, but to what each part of the ritual MEANS. And that, I think, is the value of the ritual, and THAT is why the ritual does set DeMolay apart.

And you know what? "Lack of resources" is no excuse to not do the ritual... ever. Dad Crowley never let us invent a "short form" of the ritual, and I see no value in any such thing. If you don't have enough people to fill one person in every office, ask your neighboring chapters for help, or perform more than one part. Yes, perform multiple parts. It's not as impressive as a fully decked-out chapter with all the officers, but it's impressive enough, and IT GETS THE JOB DONE.

I remember my own personal record... Less than a month into my term as Master Councilor, we had an initiation, and were severely short on people. I wound up doing the first part of the MC's initiatory degree, leaving the east and following the senior deacon around and doing all seven preceptors, returning to the east and finishing the initiatory degree, and doing the fourth section of the DeMolay degree later that night... all from memory. It wasn't letter-perfect, it definitely wasn't competition-grade, and I was NOT happy about it. But it had to be done, so I did it. No excuses. Dad Crowley wouldn't have accepted anything less of me; and, looking back today, neither would I, had I been in his position.

In fact, thinking back to that night, that's one of the more important lessons I got out of DeMolay and from Dad Crowley. When something had to be done, you do it. You don't take half-measures, you don't make excuses, you don't cheat. You do the job. End of story. If you have to pick up someone else's slack, so be it. But you get the job done. Maybe you even earn the right to complain and raise hrll afterwards. But you get the job done.

But then, now I really AM getting off-topic.

The truth is though, that our ritual teaches a valuable lesson. And I think PERFORMING it teaches those lessons even more than just hearing it. And if you do a half-baked job... if you shorten it, or skip parts, or read it from the book in open chapter; you not only do a disservice to your initiates, you do a disservice to yourselves.

And really, our ritual isn't all that complicated or hard to learn. You just have to be motivated. You just have to not LET yourself be lazy. You just have to sit down with that book and DO it.


cya,
john

In regards to the senior DeMolays doing degree work, i think it can be almost just as impressive depending on who does it and/or who is present. If it is just a chapter one, and they do it, it wont be as impressive. But, if it is at a state or internation event, like the Grand Master's Homecoming for example, several of the degrees invloved or were done by senior DeMolays. And honestly, it wasn't pretty overall, but if they had it down better, it would have been very impressive, 1 becuase the GM was there and a whole buch of other "quotable notables", and 2, there were alot of other DeMolays, guests, and other Masonic body representatives.

Usually almost every initiatory degree i have done on the chapter level, i have had to do 2-3 parts. We have never settled for less than doing the whole degree, even if we are drastically short. I know some chapters just do it during a prospect night, and they just get them all together give them the ob. and then they schedule a date later on. One, i dont like that approach, because most kids would feel so scared and/or pressured that they wouldn't say no, or they don't know what's going on, so they get confused. two... why not just do the degree. or give them the information for a degree later on that is scheduled and have them come then.
this form of the degree is the lazy man's way out.

Fraternally,

Hi John,

Glad to see you are still monitoring the Forum.

And I'm sorry that you and some of the other couldn't make it back for Glen Rager's Chevalier Investiture last Saturday...thanks to rescheduling due to two Hurricanes we had to improvise but, I think, we did you guys proud.

Jason Webb doubled as Commander in the South and Grand Chaplain, and we crowned Glen as a Jupiter-Tequesta's newest Chevalier.

As for not having but two or three people in an entire Jurisdiction who can do Jacques DeMolay or the Orator or any other part....

Well, you said it pretty well, John, and it IS up to you Actives to get the job done and learn the work!

But since it IS allowed for Senior DeMolays to "help out" that could be done, too, to help do the job...it's hard to double up on parts in the DeMolay Degree and you can't just leave speaking parts out, either.

But there was a time when a new Initiate in J-T Chapter sat on the sideline in tears, as he told Dad Crowley, because "I'll never be able to learn all that stuff." (His Obligations). I also remember that three years later the same DeMolay was State Champion in the Flower Talk, and the newly installed State Master Councilor.

As long as you think "I can't", you're right...you can't. It's just a matter of deciding that you can do it...and then you CAN.

BTW, John, were you there at Conclave that year when all the Senior DeMolays on State Staff did the Old Timers Degree? If so, what did you think of it?


Fraternally,

Dad D.

This thread reminds me of a time that I visited a district conclave back in 1993 when I was Grand Master of Cryptic Masons in Arkansas. I was recieved and given a tremendous welcome. there were fourteen or fifteen active members, and four or five candidates. as the day rolled along, the E.O. and other advisors were in a meeting as I observed the initiatory degree. As they started, the young man who was supposed to do the junior councilor part took ill, and had to be taken to the hospital. As no other person who was there knew the part, I was asked to fill in. I knew the part well enough to read it over once or twice to catch some changes.

I would agree that if given enough active members, they should handle the ritual. I couldn't leave bretheren and candidates hanging. By the way, I did ask if someone wanted to read the part or do the part with prompting. No takers there.

There is always a point to ritual. I believe that someone ought to get the most ritual they can get. If it means doing the junior councilor and three preceptor parts by yourself, then do it. The option will get us to the point mentioned above where we just hear about the moral precepts without proper explanation.

Tom Mason

Okay, time for my nickel... here goes

Personally, I have nothing against the "old guys" (No offense meant here AT ALL) want to put on the degrees for the DeMolay on a SPECIAL OCCASION to show up us "Nooblets" then go ahead.

But on the same not that's no reason for the Active DeMolay's to NOT LEARN THE RITUAL. I hjust recently became the Master Councilor of the Montgomery Chapter here in Indiana and I would gladly offer our Services to our state to do Ritual wherever we are needed to help because I believe one of the more important parts in DeMolay is our Ritual.

I know not everyone is as "into ritual" as I am (not trying to brag but I have about half of the blue book memorized). But that's also no excuse for people to not memorize their parts.

As for being shorthanded, well, that's a cop-out. You can ask other chapters for help as well, as someone said on this forum earlier (sorry that I don't remember who!)

But the really big thing about me is I don't care who gives it. Just this past friday night we went to Greenwood, Indiana to help a chapter initiate some people for them because they did not have the skills to give it. I do not have the Master Councilor's part down well enough to have it make an impact on the candidates, so our PMC did that part and I did Senior Councilor.

The MOST IMPORTANT part of any ritual. DeMolay, Masonic, whatever, IS THE CANDIDATE. Making an impact on that person's life through this ritual is what matters. When delivering a part in the ritual, you shouldn't sound like you're SAYING it to them... that's just like parents yelling at you, it doesn't work.

What you need to do is TALK TO THE CANDIDATE/S like no one else is there. It's just you and the candidates. Or to whoever if it happens to be the second section of the DeMolay Degree. THAT is how you make an impact. They understand if they feel like you are actually talking to them and know what you are talking about, instead of just reading out of a book.

Now to be on topic... personally I don't approve of just the obligations, but then again I also know that you can't run a degree on 2-4 people. So if you can't produce it, don't do it then, wait until you have enough people to do it. The obligations, while important, are not the most vital part of the Initatory and DeMolay Degree ceremonies.

This has been my bit, which is why I should never read topics about Ritual, because I ramble on. Just remember one thing, if you learn nothing from what I've said: IT'S ALL ABOUT THE CANDIDATE.

Fraternally,

Brother Cody,

WELL SAID.

A thoughtful and meaningful answer. If you can't get you Candidates degrees done at once, begin includinging them in things the Chapter does as a group that don't include the Ritual.

Hopefully you have a variety of things you are doing, Civic service, social, and even athletic events that you can invite them to, not only to meet their soon-to-be Brothers, but to have FUN and begin to experience the Brotherhood of DeMolay.

The bonding that going through the Ritual produces, for those who allow it to happen to them, is the unique aspect of Fraternities, and what sets them apart from clubs. It can happen among individuals without the Ritual, but it is then a rare and unique event, and usually among a small group of people. See the TV Movie "The Junction Boys" about Bear Bryant and a group of football-player wannabes.

The DeMolay Ritual is fairly straight-forward, our Teachings are not "Veiled in allegory" as are the Masonic Fraternity's.

But the effects of allowing the Ritual to work it's magical effect of changing a stranger into a friend one just hasn't met yet, is the priceless difference a DeMolay experiences.

As opposed, in my opinion, to a "member of DeMolay" who just went through some mumbo-jumbo because "that's what DeMolays do" to become members.

Time to get off my soap-box.

Thanks again for words well said, Cody. And for taking the time to say them.

Dale

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dale Dietzman,

Brothers --

Before I get started, let it be known (at least to all those who don't know it already) that I am considered to be a real "boat rocker." I don't believe in thinking "out of the box" -- I believe in not knowing a "box" ever existed.

The other thing to know is that I am considered by most to be a "ritualist." I love good ritual, I love performing ritual, I love watching good ritual. I have never shyed away from any part, big or small, as long as I had at least a few minutes to get it into my head.

I commend all those Chapters and Brothers who are willing to go the extra mile and help a Chapter in need ... but ... how about this "idea" ...

A young man petitions a Chapter, he gets to meet several members of the Chapter, they get to know him, and they decide he would be a good addition to the Chapter. If his parents aren't present, they are contacted, told what's up, and asked if it is okay for their son to join. Told that if they have the time, they should come down to the Chapter, so that they can see their son take is obligation.

The new member is immediately obligated. He is told that on a certain date and time, he will receive his induction in full and proper form and that we would like his parents and family friends to be present.

Now -- we have made a young man a member -- he can participate in all Chapter activities -- he doesn't wait a week, or a month to become a member (and we take the chance he looses interest), and the induction - by another Chapter if necessary - is done in an impressive manner. Once the chapter starts to make some gains, then maybe they start doing the work, on a scheduled basis.

We get the young man, when he is interested. The Chapter starts to grow. Other Chapters can help, and we don't miss out on an opportunity!

Can this be done?!? Sure, if the EO allows it to happen. (So, let's not argue about that point.)

I would like your feedback on the "concept."

S&F,
Ron Blaisdell

Personally if that's how one chapter would like to proceed in it, and they are allowed, then do it. Along with ritual comes the fact that you have to do what your chapter can do. Now granted that can be good for gaining membership, but can it really be more than that?

The ritual, as someone above may have said (I remember things but I don't quote, but whoever said it here is your credit) is one of the things that sets us apart. I'm lucky that I was able to get as into ritual as I am. When I was initiated, my degree was done very poorly, ask anyone from our chapter and they'll tell you the same. And for the next six months I hate the thought of "Having to read ritual"

But then I was installed as the Junior Councilor. and a young man from the Raymond P. Foster Chapter here in Indiana delivered the Ceremony of Light in such a way that it motivated me to learn my ritual.

Now I believe it was Dad Dietzman who said this, maybe someone else I'm not sure. But when you get your obligations, then go through the degrees where you take your obligations AGAIN. It just doesn't have the same meaning.

Now I'm not trying to critisize, for some chapters the above method may work better, especially for the Candidates family. I just personally don't think it should be done because of my love for ritual and seeing it done properly. But I'll reiterate: It's how the chapter does things and how they want to do it and IF they are allowed that dictates whether it should or should not be done that way.

This has been my dollar and sixteen cents worth, now I'm off to study the Ceremony of Light because there's a tournament coming up here in Indiana in 3 weeks.

Fraternally,

Cody,

As one of those "old guys" I totally agree. As an advisor, I have had to step into parts because of being short-handed (which I also agree is not an excuse) and I don't like it. We have had our time, it is now time for others to step in. Well said, no doubt you are a great leader. The candidate is the most important thing too. Advisors before me emphazised competition as the reason to get better in ritual. We have sinced changed that.

Jacob,
I am an advisor at Pike in San Antonio. You guys have done a great job in the short time you have been a chapter. Keep up the good work. Are you going to Government Day? If so, look me up, I will be a judge.

Dad Paceleo

I belive personally that ritual in Demolay is very important it seperates us from the boysclub and all of these other organisations and the degrees teach great lessons Not only do I enjoy watching them I enjoy Participating in them because of the impact that i can make in a canidate

First of all, it sets the principals of our order. Not only that it teaches important lessons. For example the seven cardinal virtues, they teach important lessons.

Something else I forgot to add. Just performing any cerimony and even Demolay Degree 1st and 3rd sections can improve Masonic relations